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Hey guys, so I was wondering how to incorporate magic into stories. The bible clearly stares that magic is evil, but its kind of hard to have fairies without magic. So what do you guys think about it?
@kate-flournoy, @daeus, @dragon-snapper, @jess, @aratreaWIP - Decisions
Kapeefer til we're old and grey@Alia this is such a lovely discussion that we already had it. 😀 Check out this topic here. Please add your thoughts and ask your questions. It’s a huge discussion, and the more opinions we can get on it, the better. 😉
@kate-flournoy
Thanks, I tried to check to see if it was already on here, but here were a lot of discussions to go throughWIP - Decisions
Kapeefer til we're old and grey@kate-flournoy,
I guess my question is, even if it isn’t ‘magic’, is it biblical to use something like that?WIP - Decisions
Kapeefer til we're old and grey@alia
*stares at laptop for really long time* Um…
Well, I had once written half a book of a highly magical fantasy wizards/magicians type story; the MC had magic and the Antagonist had magic etc. However, I was convicted against using such elements in my stories when I read about how much God hates sorcery (Galatians 5:20) I was convicted and thus stopped writing it. I found it a different thing completely as to me writing magic and then reading it. It also depends on how you portray it.
In the Lord of the Rings, magic is generally portrayed as evil (Sauron, Saruman and the Ring), and they each receive their judgment for using it. As for Gandalf, he recognizes the evil of magic and scarcely uses his own. The same for the White Witch in the Chronicles of Narnia.
*hands you two cents*☀ ☀ ☀ ENFP ☀ ☀ ☀
@Dragon-Snapper I would disagree. The definitions are wrong. Sorcery in our world is demonic power, and since our fantasy worlds should be copies of God’s nature and God’s creation, sorcery should be bad in fantasy worlds as well. Spells and dark incantations and witches and the like should always be portrayed as bad. I do not think you necessarily shouldn’t have them, but they should always be portrayed as the evil they are.
With Gandalf, I would argue he is not a wizard, and his ‘magic’ is not sorcery. Have you read the Silmarillion? Gandalf is one of the five ‘wizards’ (Miaar/angels) that Illuvatar (the God figure) sent into Middle-Earth to help men in their fight against Sauron. I’m frankly not quite sure why Tolkien decided to call him a wizard (possibly because ‘wizard’ is more human than ‘angel’) and I probably would not have called him that, but my point is, it’s where the power comes from that’s important.
@Alia, as I see it, magic is really only a question of the powers that govern your world. What governs it? If it’s a pagan system with blurred lines and rituals and fuzzy power that no one really understands but feels dark and wrong, yes, you have a problem. As a fantasy world should always be a shadow of our world (fantasy is merely reality stripped of its common familiarity) then there should only be one source of power in your world— God. That is Light. That is ‘white magic’, to utilize a common fantasy definition, though obviously I believe ‘magic’ is a wrong and misleading word. All power originally stemmed from that source. The evil in your world is a perversion of that Light. The Light came first, and therefore has dominion over all other power. There will be Darkness, yes— sorcery perhaps, and witches, and spells, and demons— these things are what God abhors because they belong to the perversion of Darkness. But faeries don’t necessarily have to be that. They could simply be a race your Creator figure has endowed with special gifts for the bettering of the world.
Such gifts should not be treated lightly— they are power and responsibility and everything has the potential to go wrong, but I do not believe they are un-Biblical.@Alia, what Kate said.
I like to compare magic (supernatural power used by humans/humanish creatures) to words. Words are used, if you think about it, in a lot of the ways magic is. You can use words to change the way people think or act, for example. Now, some people use words to do bad things — to tear people down, or to get people to do bad things. But that doesn’t mean we outlaw the use of words. Some people use words to build up and to get people to do good things. Does that make any sense?
Now that doesn’t mean that I would learn how to do magic for good ends, in this world. I don’t believe that the ends ever justify the means. Magic in this world, if it’s not miracles, has its source Below. Miracles, who of course come from Above, are kind of a different story. But if the story is in a different world (even a world much like our own, as long as the differences are relevant), the rules there might be different. The Creator of that world might have made it so it allowed white magic and black magic. Has anyone here read Owen Barfield’s Silver Trumpet? There’s two witchery ladies in it, one of whom is portrayed as good and using her magic for good, and the other of whom as bad. I don’t have a problem with that at all. The rules of that world allow for that kind of thing.
*takes back two cents*
@kate-flournoy Ah, okay. I have not read the Silmarillion yet, though I see that it would make a difference. 😀 I do think that it is important how magic is portrayed, but my book went a little whacko with it. 😛 Thanks for clarifying that.☀ ☀ ☀ ENFP ☀ ☀ ☀
@Dragon-Snapper *bows* Any time… XD
Yeah, no, I get your point. And I definitely agree it shouldn’t be treated as ‘just another story element’. Just as being a prophet in the Old Testament was a grave responsibility and a mark of high honor from God, anyone entrusted with any sort of supernatural gift should not just ‘go whacko’ with it. 😉
@Northerner I see your point… but I think the correctness of the moral foundation is more important than what the power’s used for. God may allow Darkness (how else would it still even exist? But that’s another discussion) but He does NOT condone it, and by its very definition it cannot be used for good. Out of the heart the mouth speaks. A spring cannot give forth both fresh water and bitter. Power cannot do what it is not. Therefore it logically follows that the only way to do good is through God’s way, and that the only thing that can be done with Satan’s way is evil.
@Kate-flournoy, right. Did I say something that implied otherwise?
@Northerner you seemed to imply that as long as a witch was using her power for good (even if it was the same power a bad witch had) then the magic was good. Perhaps I misunderstood you?
@Kate-flournoy, in a world (we are talking about fantasy too, right?) whose rules allow for that kind of thing, yes. Not in our world, unfortunately. But in the world of the example I used, Owen Barfield’s fairy tale The Silver Trumpet, magic can be good or bad depending on how it’s used. In that story there’s one old lady who uses her power for bad things — for example, turning a prince into a toad. And there’s one who uses hers for good things — turning said prince back into a human. Both women studied magic. In that world, I don’t see a problem with it.
@Northerner all right, I see. Yes, we’re talking fantasy, and as I believe fantasy is only a representation of the reality of truth (to us; in our world) and that it should be a copy of our world in its moral laws and ruling powers (as those are what determine truth) I don’t necessarily like it when a fantasy world is governed by rules/laws whose moral foundations contradict or ignore our own. But I see where you’re coming from.
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