Home Forums Fiction Writing General Writing Discussions Irrational or Rational?

This topic contains 26 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  itisastarrynight 1 day, 15 hours ago.

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    Inkling for Christ
    • Rank: Wise Jester
    • Total Posts: 79

    Okay, so…this meme is not only for girls but I feel for guys as well. As fangirls/guys, we writers are different and strangely unique in this world. In a family of engineers, I can definitely see how me being a writer is different. The level of empathy, understanding, creativity, character connection, etc is different. Anyways I saw a statement once that claimed that fangirls/guys are irrational. But are we? Is being a dreamer bad? As writers do we see something or have something this world lacks? One of my siblings told me that being a fangirl is irrational.

    But what if it was rational? What if we were the ones…

    So I came up with this idea based on this whole thing. I have not done much brainstorming yet but I kinda have something.

    In the future, the skills of word, form, and song (writing, art, and music (#THAGS)) are neglected and banned in favor of math and science. Instead of libraries, there are forums for math and science labs. Those who pursue these skills are labeled as mentally challenged and detained. society labels them as irrational. However, there is a group who defies the society and meets to uphold these. They are called the Rationals and their motto is “Bring hope to the dreamer and wide-eyed believer.” So my MC struggles with the problem of being a writer in a family of scientists. He meets this group and eventually brings about a revolution.

    My biggest problem is that I have never had a guy for an MC and will need some assistance (@supermonkey42, @sam-kowal, @daeus)

    Looking for thoughts, comments, suggestions…

    @dekreel, @emily, @epicaddie2, @winter-r0se,@daeus, @daughteroftheking, @alia, @dragon-snapper



    • Rank: Wise Jester
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    Ooh. I totally love this idea! @inkling-for-christ

    Would being a dreamer put him in danger, or do people just look down on him for not being “smart” like the rest of them, or interested in the same things? I guess I’m saying, to what level is he not accepted? Are dreamers put in prison? Is it illegal? Does his family reject  him? Does he write secretly? These are just some questions to get you thinking about this more.


    • Rank: Chosen One
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    @inkling-for-christ I’m not sure that fangirl automatically equals dreamer, but definitely dreaming is not irrational. I’d like to debate anyone who thought so. *roars*

    I might come back here and rant about that sometime.

    In the meantime though, I think that’s a cool story idea and if you need any help writing guys, I could help. Guys are not that hard. They’re just like girls, only a lot different.




    • Rank: Wise Jester
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    @daeus “Guys are not that hard. They’re just like girls, only a lot different.” Yeah. That makes total sense. XD

    @inkling-for-christ This idea is really intriguing! Would dreamers be put in mental institutions? Would people hide their creative side to avoid them? Would patients in the institutions feign being cured to escape the brutal torture and attempted brainwashing? Seriously, this fascinates me so much!!!



    Sam Kowal
    • Rank: Knight in Shining Armor
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    @inkling-for-christ 😀 That’s a cool idea.

    I would say, definitely, fangirls can be dreamers, but being a fanperson doesn’t necessarily make you a dreamer. @daeus kind of already said that. Dreamers can be all kinds of people, people who believe in things no one else does, who see hope where others don’t, who aspire to things others don’t. They look beyond what they can only see and…well, dream. So definitely, a story about dreamers could be cool.

    Certainly, dreaming could fairly be labeled irrational. Rational means ‘completely based on logic’ and sometimes what we dream isn’t based on logic. That doesn’t mean it fails to work, though. It goes beyond logic.

    Anyway, yeah, a male character, I’d love to help with that. It probably won’t be as hard as you think. Just make sure your character doesn’t mull over what brands of shampoo to buy. 😀 :P. Or anything like that. And then… well, maybe a little more than that. But it’s all still the same writing techniques

    *Giarstanornarak tries to melt chair*


    Grace H.
    • Rank: Charismatic Rebel
    • Total Posts: 48

    @inkling-for-christ I love this idea! Is “bring hope to the dreamer and wide-eyed believer” from this song? (haha or maybe I’m just being a fangirl here). In all seriousness, though, this is a pretty amazing idea, and I would love to read this story.

    There are a lot of articles online that you can search up that talk about writing guy’s POV’s (many of which are based on common stereotypes) but @aratrea wrote a pretty cool article on it earlier in the year: http://kingdompen.org/three-ways-gender-differences-should-impact-your-storys-character-arc/ in which I found #2 and #3 to be helpful.

    INFJ - daydreamer, musician, and writer.


    Inkling for Christ
    • Rank: Wise Jester
    • Total Posts: 79

    @livgiordano, and @radically-surrendered, dreaming I’m thinking is shunned and in some cases illegal. The punishment is being thrown into a mental institution. This society doesn’t have prisons just institutions. Those with creative sides hide them as much as possible. I’m thinking my MC writes in secret but his dreaming is known to his family and they try to discourage him from it. then he meets this group which is under the guise of an after-school club. Most of the characters I’ve worked with before are at least 18 but I want to go younger. I’m looking at making my MC 15ish.

    @daeus, and @sam-kowal, thanks, guys! @sam-kowal, I do agree with your definition of rational and I think we all can say that dreamers see things in a different light.

    @gh24682468999, I couldn’t see the link. honestly, I don’t know where that line about wide-eyed believers is from.

    @everyone, thanks for the encouragement and feedback. I will keep you posted as I work on this project. I feel that we need to show the world that dreaming isn’t a bad thing and that while unique it isn’t crazy. (95% of the time)



    Inkling for Christ
    • Rank: Wise Jester
    • Total Posts: 79

    @sam-kowal, and everybody,

    so I am wondering here about POV I feel that I should shake up my usual girl first person trend and do something different. what do you think? should I do third person or something else?


    N. C.
    • Rank: Knight in Shining Armor
    • Total Posts: 882

    @inkling-for-christ Unique idea! I would read that. *also, flailing and fangirling bc you mentioned THAGS* If you want to try something different for POV, I would say go for it! Maybe try writing a little bit in different POVs and see which one is the funnest. As for writing a male MC, these articles are super helpful:



    But not without regard for the double negative!


    Inkling for Christ
    • Rank: Wise Jester
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    @daughteroftheking,  you’re a fellow wingfeather fan?  Thanks for the articles!


    Sam Kowal
    • Rank: Knight in Shining Armor
    • Total Posts: 345


    Hm, well, if you’re looking to do something different, third person limited is probably the best way to go. I wouldn’t recommend 2nd person, which is sort of un-doable in novels. There’s always third person omniscient, but I’ve never actually written in that.

    If you’re focused on a story that has a lot of new aspects for you, you might find it easier to stick to a POV that you’re familiar with. Then again, maybe if you’re doing a lot of new things, you want to jump into them all at once.

    The nice thing about third person, to me, is that you can switch between characters if you like. And show the story from all angles. So yeah, go for third person, if you like 😀

    • This reply was modified 4 days, 9 hours ago by  Sam Kowal.

    *Giarstanornarak tries to melt chair*


    • Rank: Loyal Sidekick
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    @inkling-for-christ I personally think that being a dreamer is not irrational, as God has given us imaginations and creativity. It isn’t irrational so long as we are in submission.

    As for help in creating a male MC, I definitely recommend this KP article

    I can't believe it's not butter!


    • Rank: Charismatic Rebel
    • Total Posts: 47

    I love this story idea! I’d love to read a book like this.

    As for male characters, I can’t give a ton of advice, being a girl (although I have written male MCs). If you can write male supporting characters, there’s no reason not to be able to write a male MC. The article everyone has mentioned is really good. Just try not to over-stereotype. I don’t know how it is for boys, but too often books with male authors that have female main characters make them all really stupid and girly and gossipy and caring way too much how they look… Pet peeve 🙂

    Silence! Silence everyone, for the king's speech!


    Inkling for Christ
    • Rank: Wise Jester
    • Total Posts: 79

    Thanks, guys! Below is the opening scene for Rational:

    “Corrin, I’m worried about Ryan.”

    “The boy will learn. He is still young. He is but a child with childish dreams. IN time his love for words will pass and he will embrace logic as the rest of us have.”

    “But he is so different, Corrin. He is not like his brothers and sister. What will people say when they learn the governor has an ill-conforming son?”

    “Darleen, he’s only fourteen he will learn. I shall see to it.”

    With trembling limbs, the boy, who was crouched behind the sturdy oak doors, rose and took a silent step back. Carefully he walked back making sure not to step on the creaky floorboards

    ‘Bong, bong, bong!’

    He nearly jumped out of his skin as his back touched the smooth side of the grandfather clock. His heart was pounding against his ribs like a caged animal trying to free itself. Ryan was the son of the cities governor and yet something was different about him. Was it his eyes? His crystal clear blue eyes that seemed to see beyond the mask a person wore. Those eyes that held in them a glimmer of hope. Was it his ink-stained hands? Or yet could it be his quiet personality?

    ‘why?’ he asked himself, ‘why must I be so different?’




    Ben P.
    • Rank: Loyal Sidekick
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    @inkling-for-christ Sorry I’m late! I find this idea especially intriguing because I see myself as a logical dreamer, if that makes any sense. My goal for life is to become a computer programmer who writes fiction on the side.

    So… my suggestion is to not make math and science seem evil or the dreamers perfect but to seek a middle ground. Perhaps the government in your story has gone overboard with outlawing dreamers, but the dreamers, after trying to start a revolution, find they need the help of the scientists to succeed, thus creating a society where the two types of people rely on each other and live in equality.

    As for writing a male MC… well, I’m tired of the stereotypical outgoing, athletic, charming guys, but that’s just my opinion.

    Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong. -Luke Skywalker

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